What did Rob Wood really say to Summer and Zulema?
What's all the buzz about
prosecutorial misconduct?
December 22, 2020
Hello Friends, there have been some interesting recent developments. First, I want to talk about the process – the motions that were filed, the rulings, and what they mean – then, I want to break down the transcript of Rob Wood’s interview with Lori Vallow’s sister, Summer Shiflett. Brace yourself for a long newsletter.
The most recent developments began when Lori’s attorney, Mark Means, filed a motion to disqualify special prosecutor, Rob Wood. Means alleged that Wood committed misconduct when he met with Lori’s sister, Summer Shiflett. He also asked for the deadline for the Motion to Dismiss to be extended to give him time to include this additional information in his motion.
In my last post, I, like Scott Reisch of the Crime Talk podcast, jumped to the conclusion that the transcript was provided to the defense by the prosecution through discovery channels. We were both wrong. According to Wood’s affidavit, he was unaware that Summer’s attorney, Garrett Smith, recorded the meeting and didn’t know about the transcript until Means filed his motion to disqualify. Garrett Smith filed an affidavit that alleges that he told Wood he was recording, even though he didn’t have to because it’s enough if one person knows they are recording in Arizona. Smith also says that he gave the recording to Means because Smith felt the recordings were proof of Wood’s professional misconduct as defined in Arizona. Let’s remember, Wood is governed by the Idaho Rules of Professional Conduct, even if he is conducting a meeting in Arizona.
After Means filed his motion, Rob Wood filed an answering affidavit and asked for an expedited hearing. The Court held a closed-door hearing the next day. Rob Wood also filed a motion for a protective order to seal any documents submitted to the Court to support the Motion to Disqualify. Mark means then filed a motion asking the judge for a temporary protective order that essentially suspended Rob Wood as the special prosecutor until there can be a full hearing on the motion.
The Court held a closed-door hearing on Friday, December 18, 2020. The judge issued a written order. Here’s what he said:
Mark Means’ motion for a protective order suspending Rob Wood was DENIED.
Means’ motion for additional time to file the motion to dismiss was GRANTED because everyone involved agreed.
The judge didn’t rule on the Motion to Disqualify. Instead, he canceled the hearing on the change of venue motion scheduled for January 6, 2020, and put the Motion to Disqualify in its place.
The judge ruled that there was no need to have the hearing in-person and that it would be held by Zoom.
The judge continued the order to seal all the pleadings regarding the Motion to Disqualify.
Because the cases are joined, and both attorneys filed motions to disqualify Rob Wood, both defendants will participate in the January 6, 2020 hearing. Both special prosecutor Rob Wood and Chad Daybell’s attorney, John Prior, asked for that hearing to be closed. Lori Vallow’s attorney, Mark Means, objected. The judge took it under advisement – which means he’s thinking about it. He gave both attorneys leave to submit additional arguments before December 30, 2020. After that, he will make a decision.
A new date will have to be set on the change of venue motion. That will undoubtedly delay the trial dates.
Now to the transcript.
The Court ordered “the December 16, 2020 Affidavit be SEALED, and that any further proposed affidavits or exhibits in support of the joint Motions to Disqualify be SEALED until further order of this Court. In addition, the transcript of the December 15, Status Conference is SEALED until further order of this Court.” The Court’s order is dated December 17, 2020.
I.C.A.R, 32(i)(4) says “When a record is sealed under this rule, it shall not be subject to examination, inspection or copying by the public. When the Court issues an order sealing or redacting records, the Court shall also inform the Clerk of the District Court of which specific files, documents and case management system records are to be sealed or redacted. When the Court issues an order sealing or redacting records for purposes of public disclosure, the original records in the court file shall not be altered in any fashion.”
There is no guidance in either the Court’s order or the rules about what happens when the horse is already out of the barn. In other words, this affidavit and transcript were already out in the public purview before the Court issued the order. Some media outlets have taken their posts about the transcript down out of an abundance of caution; some have not.
Below I’ve added comments to my copy of the transcript. By the way, it’s evident a professional transcriptionist didn’t create this.
Summer Shiflet Interview 10/1/2020
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: on of the ones kind of running down the kids’ case because they were last seen in Rexburg. And um or were last living in Rexburg. Tylee was last seen in yellow Stone, but um
Summer: Right
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: and so, we were the ones that knew everything about the case. So, they assigned us on that. Um, I’m just going to tell you right now we, we are going to be filling conspiracy to commit murder charges for both chad and Lori
Note that this is Rob Wood speaking, not the Chandler PD. He is talking about conspiracy to commit murder charges in Idaho, not Arizona. He’s talking about the murder of the children, not about the murder of Charles Vallow.
Garrett: ok
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: and we’re not shy about that. We’ve told both attorneys. His attorney keeps pretending like I’ve never said that. What? But we are, we have to. But I kind of want to give you like a little bit of background of where we are. And. Kinda like our kind of theory of how this ended up where it was. we know that this is not the same Lori everyone else knew. What’s so strange to me is. everyone we talked to. everyone we talked to who knew Lori before this, you she was primary president, she made quilts for these kids, she, she made everything fun, everyone loved her. She loved everyone.
It doesn’t surprise me that Rob Wood has been transparent with both attorneys about the state’s intentions. Telling each of them encourages them to discuss it with their clients and consider how to mitigate the damage. I can’t imagine why John Prior would pretend he had not heard that. He has to know what’s on the table. Here is where we get a glimpse of Wood’s theory and the unfolding of the case. Wood believes Chad Daybell manipulated Lori into her involvement. For an analysis of both Chad and Lori’s psychological profiles, I encourage you to listen to Hidden A True Crime Podcast. Forensic psychologist Dr. John Matthias and his wife, journalist Lauren Matthias analyze the case and the players. Here is a link to the episode Beyond the Veil: When Chad Met Lori and The Dream of Immortality. https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-mxbhv-f2ca8a Dr. Matthias is insightful, and his analysis is easy to understand.
Summer: great mom
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: great mother, that’s what everyone says. And and you know. So, one thing I’m going to kind of ask you to consider is maybe, something happened. I don’t know what. I don’t know if it was psychological, I I don’t know. I don’t know if we’ll ever know. But something happened and I think Colby the way he said it to me I think is kind of, the person who is in that jail, he said is not my mom, its someone else.
Wood is fleshing out his theory. The person in jail isn’t the Lori everyone knew and loved. Chad manipulated her.
Summer: yeah
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: on the flip side of that is, I shouldn’t say the flip side but, I want to be clear. I’m no going to pull any punches on any defendant in this case. Right? I’ve got my job to do and
Summer: absolutely
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: but we also want truth and the whole truth and the context of it. And Chad Daybell, is did you, did you ever meet chad?
Summer: so, I met him once at a preparing people. I went to one preparing people thing
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: ok
Summer: and with my mom and husband and I went to support Lori and she wanted to support Mel, so went and met chad after he talked for like 90 seconds maybe. If that. And then he called me when Lori got transferred to the Idaho jail, he texted me and said Lori wanted to talk to me. And I was like yeah and then the second I hung up with her, he called me to ask me about bail.
Lori and Chad both contacted Lori’s sister to discuss bail. I assume that means they asked whether the family could help them raise money (or put up assets) for bail.
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: mm
Summer: for Lori, so I’ve talked to him maybe 3 times briefly on the phone. Never a long extended conversation. But the first thing he said to me when he called me was that he said that Lori hasn’t told me very much about the kids so there’s not really much I can tell you about it.
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: ok, of course he said that
Of course, he did. Let’s remember, he was talking to Summer after Lori had been returned to Idaho from Hawaii and knowing full well that the children’s remains were buried in his backyard.
Summer: mhmm
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: well. Welcome to Chad Daybell. so, what I want
Summer: I have my own opinions him don’t get me wrong
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: he’s, I bet you do. He is highly manipulative.
Summer: yes, he is
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: I’m not going to say he’s highly intelligent, but you don’t have to be highly intelligent to be highly manipulative.
Summer: absolutely
Rob Wood has communicated his theory of the case and cemented Summer’s buy-in. She agrees that Chad is the mastermind.
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: he is extremely manipulative, and you know your sister manipulated him in some ways too but the, the context for everything that happened came from Chad.
Summer: absolutely
Wood isn’t going to let Lori off scot-free, though. She was manipulative too. Once she bought into Chad’s doctrine, she did so with a laser focus. She became to mover and shaker. Without Lori, Chad’s beliefs would have remained in the unrealized realm of his books.
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: And uh, unfortunately we do. We have enough evidence to prosecute him, we do. But I, the case against your sister is stronger, um. But I just I kind of just want to give you like just that background. That’s the kind of the context that we see this guy. Came in here. And you know not making excuses for anyone but kind of blew up this situation. And he did not care, who died
Summer: mhmm
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: who got hurt. He did not care at all. And the other thing I can tell you is, your sister truly believes that everything she’s done, has been done in righteousness.
Summer: I know
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: I know I’m kind of using L.D.S. speak
Garrett: yea
An interesting insight here; s we have suspected all along, Lori believes that everything she has done was justified by her belief in Chad’s brand of Mormonism.
Summer: 100% that’s my interpretation also, I think she 100% believes
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: she believes it.
Summer: mhmm
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: every once in a while, you’ll see kind of a little crack, in like a jail phone call. But,
Summer: well, you’ve heard our conversations too, you know that I, I get that she’s not fully aware of what she’s really done.
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: right, yeah
Summer: I don’t think she is
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: yeah, I mean, I’m going to say this. I think she knows what she’s done.
Summer: She knew enough to lie to us about it
This is an interesting exchange. Wood thinks there are chinks in Lori’s faith armor and that some light may be getting in. He doesn’t let Summer get away with thinking that Lori doesn’t understand what she’s done, and right away, Summer concludes that Lori understood what she had done was wrong because she lied to cover it up. Lori lied to her family. Everything they knew about her was that she was a good person and a devoted mother. They believed and repeated Lori’s lies because what she told them reinforced what they thought they already knew about her: she was a loving mother who would never hurt her children.
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: right, yeah but she the context under which it was done was this. Religious. Just these ideas were out there, I can say this cause I am LDS, had no basis in the LDS faith. You know just, and you said it in her phone calls to her. So, anyway that’s kind of where we’re at, and we, you know, again were just really grateful for you coming in. And it’s gonna be hard, to talk about these things
Summer: oh yeah
Rob Wood has been careful not to discuss his membership in the LDS church, and rightly so. It’s no surprise he’s a church member in a community where 96% percent of the population are church members. Wood has long ago come to terms with prosecuting church members. His church membership is probably an advantage since he understands church doctrine and how it played into Chad’s beliefs. He also says that Summer has said the same in her jail calls with Lori.
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: we know that, and they’re gonna be, you know you’re not being a person of interest
Garrett: yeah, we’ve had that conversation so
Summer is not a person of interest, so there is no suggestion of immunity. It’s possible Wood’s sole purpose in talking to Summer is to give Summer information that might encourage her to Lori to talk.
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: but part of what we need to do is understand. Well, when you have a case like this it’s not like just like a meth case. I probably had meth, and nobody cares who you are
Summer: no, there’s no drugs, no alcohol, it’s just
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: but this case is a, we need to understand the context of who these people are. And so that’s a lot of what they’re going to be asking about.
Summer: ok, I’ll do my best, I mean
I had to read over this exchange more than once to understand what was being said. Wood says, “it’s not like a meth case.” His point is that when you prosecute a meth case, the defendant's character and psychological makeup aren’t of interest. The only question is whether you possessed methamphetamine. In this case, who the defendants are and what they believe is very important. Summer jumps to point out that there are no drugs or alcohol. They seem to be talking at cross purposes, and that makes the exchange a little confusing.
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: Like I said it won’t be easy, I know it’s going to be a hard, be a hard interview
Summer: I was wondering if you would be willing to tell if you’re able to tell me if there’s any progress in what you know about Tylee and her death, but is there any progress in her otopy where you understand better?
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: all I can tell well.
Summer: I mean do you have a cause yet or is it close to one?
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: She is at the FBI’s state of the art. Crime lab. Unfortunately, there’s a lot of diseased bodies there, there. That they’re going through.
Summer: oh, I’m sure
Here is one of the places where I wonder if the transcription is accurate. Wood is e precise in his words, and I wonder at his use of “diseased.” More likely, he said, “deceased.” The interesting takeaway is that Tylee’s remains are being processed by the FBI and not the state medical examiner or crime lab.
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: And so, we’re not. We don’t know really anymore yet. We may never know. Due to the, the destruction of that body. And yeah, we hope we’ll find out, we may not. But obviously, we know it’s her. There was soft tissue that was still preserved enough to do DNA tests
Summer: yeah, the way you guys found them, like we wouldn’t have ever known.
Garrett: ya
Summer: and I would have never dreamed that she would ever hurt them so
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: you know what, and everyone says that.
Summer: ya
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: that’s what everyone says. Everyone says that. I never would have, so. It is, it’s a tragic thing.
Summer: it really is yeah
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: but I again I just want you to know how grateful we are, I know you know you don’t have to talk to us. And so, we’re just grateful that you’re willing to and helping us that way. and it’s I’m sure, kind of difficult knowing that they’re asking for information that’s going to help them in the case against your sister. But but I guess the thing I want you to know is our whole goal is just justice for these kids.
Summer: Yeah
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: and we mean our hope. Our hope is it comes to it. Your sisters actually made some overtures she might be willing to talk to us.
Again, I think there are errors in the transcription that make this almost unintelligible. It seems Wood is saying he hopes Lori will come to understand it’s in her best interest to tell her side of the story. The important part is that Lori made some overtures about being willing to talk. Here may be the most significant reason for Wood talking with Summer. From this conversation, we know that Summer talks with Lori regularly. Wood would be happy if, given the information he’s given Summer, she decides to encourage Lori to talk.
Summer: I hope she does. I pray for that all the time
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: we hope she does, she actually was talking about with Chad about talking with us about before we found the bodies. Just a few days before. And he talked her out of it.
Summer: mm
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: which is too bad. It would have been better for her to tell us
Garrett: yeah sure, it would have been
Summer: I agree
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: I mean it, we were actually just finishing up our warrant on the date she said that. We were just getting ready to go out that day. That would have been even better, and he talked her out of it.
Interesting. As the prosecution was on the verge of digging up Chad’s backyard, Lori contemplated talking to the police, but Chad talked her out of it. That gives new context to the call on June 9, 2020, between them when the bodies were found. Here is my transcript of that call.
Lori: Hi, Babe.
Chad: Hello.
Lori: Are you OK? We now know that Lori had a conversation with him about talking to the police just the day before. I also still think it’s likely Lori knew something was going on.
Chad: Well, They’re searching the **** property. Is it possible Chad thought they were searching because Lori told them something?
Lori: The house right now?
Chad: Yeah yeah for more evidence.**** so, Mark means will be talking to you.
Lori: OK, what? Are they in the house? They know they are being recorded, but Lori is trying to determine whether they are looking inside or outside, where the bodies are buried.
Chad: No, they’re out on the property.
Lori: Are they seizing stuff… Again? Again, she knows she’s being recorded but is trying to find out if they’ve discovered anything.
Chad: They’re searching.
Lori: Mmm.
Chad: There’s a search warrant and so …****to take evidence with the kids
Lori: OK, mmm.
Chad: Yeah I saw you tried to put up a call, I’m glad you called.
Lori: Yeah.
Chad: So, We’ll see what transpires.
Lori: ‘Kay.
Chad: Yeah, I don’t really…
Lori: What do you want me to do…?
Chad: What?
Lori: …pray?
Lori: What do you want me …?
Chad: Yeah, pray and …yeah
Lori: OK, what can I do for you?
Chad: I’m feeling pretty calm, I would call Mark, though maybe. Just talk with him.
Lori: Have you talked to him already?
Chad: I did call him, yes.
Lori: So he knows what they’re doing?
Chad: Yes Looks like I got a call from somebody else that I need to talk to, but I love you so much.
Lori: OK, I love you. Should I try to call you later?
Chad: Um, I don’t know, I.. I don’t know, you can try, I’ll answer if I can.
Lori: OK
Chad: I love you, and we’ll talk soon
Lori: OK baby, Iove you
Chad: Love you, bye.
Summer: ya
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: and the night before she says to him again like, he what do you think about, you know, and he uses this kind of, I call it, spiritual abuse. Spiritual manipulation.
Summer: ya
I think this is another typo in the sloppy transcript. I think it should read, “and the night before, she says to him again, “Hey, what do you think,” you know, and he uses this kind of, I call it, spiritual abuse…spiritual manipulation.
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: we’ve all seen that guy. In the LDS religion whose wife has to obey him because he the priesthood type thing. And thats not what it says but its very, it’s the same type of thing.
Garrett: mhm
People don’t talk in straight lines, the way they do when they write. If you listen to a trial transcript, you’d be surprised. Even with many judge's admonitions, people still use body language and gestures and leave sentences unfinished. I can tell you from experience, reading a transcript of yourself is excruciating. You think you are very concise and organized until you read what you said. Add in a very sloppy transcript, and some things are nearly unintelligible in this conversation. Wood is saying that he understands but doesn’t necessarily agree with the church’s teachings about women's role. He recognizes the lifelong indoctrination that women receive from the church that encourages them to be subservient, to obey, and, as the church calls it, “keep sweet.” Indeed, the church has started to loosen its stance on women’s roles, but to be clear, women cannot hold leadership positions over men and cannot be prophets. In LDS doctrine, men ‘hold the priesthood,” and women do not. This priesthood recognizes men’s superior position in God’s hierarchy and their dominance over women. (Please note I not a member of the church, and my opinions on the subject are my own.)
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: well, I’m the visionary guy, so, you know. So anyway, again I just wanted to meet with you real quick and introduce myself and Mackenzie, shes
I have no idea what “I’m the visionary guy” means unless Wood is continuing the thought from the last comment about Chad, suggesting that it’s something Chad would say.
Summer: I would have obviously seen you
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: yes, ya
Summer: but I don’t take any joy in doing anything that’s going to harm her. I don’t take joy in her spending her life in prison. There’s nothing,
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: sure
Summer: it hurts to think about her being in there
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: there’s nothing good about case like this Summer: there’s nothing good about it.
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: and you know what, even if you win a case. Like Garretts been in Court, like there’s cases, you know as a prosecutor like you take to trial and you win and you’re like, even at the end you’re like, well nothing good has, it’s all bad
Garrett: ya
Summer: it’s all bad
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: I said this to someone the other day. Who knows your sister is our goal is. sometimes you get murder and all you have is that murder and you just have to run out and charge it and then you kind of put it put it together. We were able to put them in jail with a high bail on these lower charges and put together a case. Now our goal is to have such a strong case that when she has competent counsel, I don’t know if you know this, her attorney, has never handled a felony before
Here we get confirmation that, as we suspected, Wood and the state are using the current charges to hold Lori and Chad while they put their case together. Here is where I think Mark Means thinks Wood committed some sort of misconduct. Wood says their goal is to have such a strong case that a competent and experienced attorney will convince Lori that it would be better for her to give Chad up. If, as Wood suggests later, the state asks for the death penalty, Lori will have to have an attorney certified by Idaho to represent defendants in capital cases, and Mark Means is not. Wood is saying that if Lori had an experienced criminal attorney, this case might have gone differently.
Summer: mhmm
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: he’s never, never done any meaningful criminal work at all. And he doesn’t know what he’s doing. He’s a nice guy.
Summer: yeah, I met him
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: other than when he’s lying about me, but he a he’s he doesn’t know what he’s doing and once we file further charges, she will be appointed counsel who will know what they’re doing. And our goal is to, put together such a case, that they’re smart enough to say, uh, it’s gonna be better to talk.
Summer: mhmm
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: you know, and I think we are. Um and make it easier for everyone. Make it easier especially you know for Colby I, if there’s someone who’s lost everything, its him. So, anyway I again I mainly just wanted to thank you for coming in and being with us
Summer: mhm. It’s weird to be on the prosecution and defense’s side at the same time because I love everybody.
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: well, you know, it’s a system. I did defense work for almost. I did it for 5 years. And I, I actually really enjoyed it, I thought it was kind of fun.
Garrett: I like defending
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: and you gave me that perspective right away. Just cause someone’s committed a crime doesn’t mean they’re a horrible person.
Summer: so, I’m so torn with all the its such a conflicting feeling to know that this persons been good her whole life and then has made this error in judgement and got sucked into this vortex of this man.
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: mhm
Summer: and I feel for her, I just have so much compassion towards her because I know that’s not what she would have ever done on her own.
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: right
Summer: and so, she has to pay the price for this, forever. And I hate that for her. So, I’m very conflicted. But I was going to ask you on the concealment or not the concealment but on the conspiracy to commit murder, what’s the weight of that in terms of judgement, is that a death penalty kind of thing?
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: it is death penalty case in Idaho.
Can’t you just feel Summer’s stomach clench?
Summer: are you planning to ask that for them or do you not want to
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: we sure hope we don’t. A lot of that will depend on her
Another statement that Summer might pass on to Lori. Whether they seek the death penalty depends on what Lori is willing to tell them.
Summer: ok
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: and its that’s not a decision or, that a decision we don’t make actually until after a case is filed.
Summer: ok
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: and we have a couple months. Cause a lot of times when you file it. It’s out there on the table. Oftentimes that’s a big motivator for people to get together and talk and try and resolve it. And that’s what we hope happens. I have no desire to do that. Plus, once you do that it’s endless appeals,
Garrett: ya
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: I don’t think the other family wants it at all because it
Garrett: prologs it
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: the case just never resolves.
Garrett: ya
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: it just kind of, well you appeal this, then you appeal that, and it can go on forever, so we’re sure hoping not. To go down that rout, now I’m not saying I won’t, if we look at trial I might. But we haven’t made up our minds on that.
Summer: ok
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: we really don’t want to, can tell you that from the bottom of my heart
Summer: knowing her if she comes out of this, state and realizes the weight of it, she may prefer that honestly. I think about that all the time with her just because of what she’s been through. Just, I just can’t
Is she saying Lori would rather die?
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: I know you know a lot more about Lori than I do. But we have learned a lot about Lori and there’s, ya I mean there’s been some things happen in her life I think that play into this.
Summer: oh definitely.
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: and um, so but we, like I said, I talk of having a one way a little bit, but I want you to know that I have no desire to
Summer: yea I think you see it for what it is
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: yeah, it’s not a
Summer: I don’t know how you couldn’t with interviewing everybody
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: well, its, yeah. I mean I’ll tell you. I was there in Hawaii when that the order to produce the children was served. And I was there when they served the search warrants for when the news showed up, which I was super annoyed by that. I never want, it’s just blows everything up right. At that moment when we saw them. Cause your sister can put on a brave face.
Summer; oh yeah
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: we were like oh does this guy know what he’s gotten into?
Summer: mhm
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: and cause she was just very stoic, very like I’m not going to say an word. He looked like he was about to pee his pants. Cause he’s actually, a wimpy person.
Summer: ya.
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: he wimpy?
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: ya
Summer: ya
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: he’s great if he has someone else to do something for him, but he himself is a wimpy person. And at the time they were like this is all her. Like how is she manipulating this guy? But then once we dug into the, that was the beginning as we’re like starting to get fact’s we got more fact’s like oh. Again, I’m not gonna pull punches, if I have to go to trial. But these ideas came from him.
Wood is saying Chad was the mastermind, but Lori was the do-er. He’s good at getting people to do his dirty work. He’s also saying, if there is a trial, Lori isn’t going to look any better than Chad.
Summer; oh yeah
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: and she had, she had some different views on theology and standard LDS by that point. But he really knew how to manipulate that and turn it into something even more.
Summer: his influence was there before she met him
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: yes, she was reading his books for
Summer: wasn’t just his books, so it was like the julie Rowe podcasts
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: oh yes
Summer: he gave Julie Rowe a lot of her ideas. And so, when she would listen to Julie Rowe, she was getting to Chads ideas too by listening to this
This is interesting. Summer says Lori was influenced by Chad even before she met him because she was reading his books and that Chad’s ideas were the basis of Julie Rowe’s work. Summer says that Lori was indoctrinated into Chad’s beliefs long before meeting him through Julie Rowe.
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: yeah, oh yeah Julie Rowe, she’s interesting
Summer: I’ve heard some of her podcasts, when she started talking about herself in third person all the time, I’m like, hmm
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: yeah, I’ve listened to her podcasts as well and interesting stuff.
Garrett: Garrett doesn’t like when people talk about themselves in the third person
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: well and we’ll let you get going and we can start on this
Garrett: ok
Summer: I was going to see if you guys wanted some wrist bands to take back with you these are wrist bands, I had made up for Tylee and JJ
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: oh, I would
Garrett: take as many as you want
Summer: give them to everybody
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: I’ll tell you what
Summer: if you want them, we just
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: ya
Summer: we did it where
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: they’ve got a couple of wrist bands for let’s see there’s ron, ray,
Summer: you could just take the whole bag with you that’s fine, just take them
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: oh, do you have more of these?
Summer: oh, I have plenty more
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD; oh okay
Garrett: you can’t order these in a hundred so
Summer: I many have hundreds for, I started off just doing them for Tylee and JJ’s friends and teachers,
we wear ours all the time, so just keeps them close
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: thank you
Summer: ya
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: sorry
Summer: its fine
Garrett: it’s an emotional thing
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: you know it’s interesting how you can in Rexburg those kids weren’t
there very long, but there our kids
Garrett: ya
Summer: anytime there’s kids involved. It’s not okay.
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: so, thank you
Garrett: there’s not one of us that doesn’t want to protect the kids
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: right
Garrett: for sure
PROSECUTOR ROBERT WOOD: alright well, I’ll call or text. If you need, I don’t know how long this, would you mind if we sit down and talk to you, any breaks you need, any anything
Garrett: I’ve run over it, you bet. I told her if she has questions, she can ask me or use the bathroom, or we’ll shut it down and
Summer: thank you
Garrett: do all that so
Summer: nice to meet you
So what do I think about this?
I think it’s hard to get misconduct or witness tampering out of what’s contained in the transcript. To be sure, Garrett’s affidavit makes clear the transcript is an excerpt of a more extended conversation and that he gave it directly to Mark Means.
Did Wood give Summer information he hoped would get back to Lori? Absolutely. I suspect Wood is frustrated with what Mark Means is not telling his client. Is that witness tampering or coercion? Absolutely not. At no time did Wood discuss with Summer what she might say if she were a witness for either side or try to change her mind about what she knows.
As for making Wood a witness in the case or opening up the possibility of civil litigation, I can’t see it with what we know. Nothing in the transcript could be construed as investigative. It was, as Wood suggests, an introductory chat before Summer talked to investigators. While it’s clear Wood said things that he would be happy to have Summer discuss with Lori, he didn’t ask Summer to intervene and get Lori to talk. He didn’t tell Summer what to say to investigators or suggest any consequence if she didn’t tell investigators what he wanted her to. Conversely, it doesn’t appear that Summer told Wood anything material that would have made the conversation investigatory.
Interestingly, we have no information about the recording of Zulema Pastenes’ conversation with Rob Wood. I think this is because that conversation was much more significant and substantive. I believe Zulema was the real reason Wood went to Arizona in the middle of a pandemic. She was part of the inner circle and probably had some involvement in the death of Lori’s brother, Alex Cox. Zulema had been married to Alex for about two weeks when Alex died. His death, while initially ruled to be from natural causes, is still under investigation. I think Rob Wood was there to offer Zulema immunity from prosecution in return for her testimony against Lori and Chad. I think Zulema’s portion of the interviews was not released because immunity agreements are extremely sensitive.
What did we learn from the transcript? We learned that there is ample evidence to charge both Lori and Chad with conspiracy to commit murder and ask for the death penalty and that those charges are coming. We learned that Rob Wood would like to keep the death penalty off the table, but it will require Lori’s cooperation. We learned that the state’s theory of the case is that Chad is the mastermind and Lori, the follower, but Lori was the do-er in the relationship. That certainly mirrors the observations of Dr. John Matthias in his podcast. We learned from Summer that Lori was obsessed with Chad long before she met him. Lori followed Julie Rowe, whose ideas were derived from Chad, and Lori read all of Chad’s books. Lori was utterly enamored with Chad long before she met him. Chad had the ideas, but Lori wanted action. After Chad and Lori became involved, Lori likely convinced Alex, Zulema, Melanie Gibb, and Melani Pawlowski to help her act on Chad’s beliefs and visions. Lori started the podcasts and began what everyone calls “gathering.” It seems that without Lori, Chad may have done nothing but continue to sit in the BYU library and write his strange little stories. Lori set things in motion; her coming into Chad’s life was the perfect storm of colliding sociopaths.
Let’s see how good my crystal ball is. I predict:
Rob Wood will not be disqualified.
Both Lori and Chad will be charged with conspiracy to murder the children, and Wood will seek the death penalty for both.
Mark Means will be replaced by someone qualified in capital cases. Means may face sanctions from the Idaho Bar.
Chad will be charged with Tammy’s murder.
The current charges will never be litigated; they will either be wrapped into or superseded by murder charges.
The Court will grant the change of venue motion, and the trials, if they happen, will be moved to Boise.
Lori will turn on Chad in return for Rob Wood taking the death penalty off the table for her. If Lori does turn, Chad’s case will go to trial because death penalty cases always do, and Chad’s trial won’t happen until early 2022.
Lori will be charged with conspiracy to murder in Arizona for Charles Vallow’s death.
No charges will be filed in the deaths of Alex Cox and Joseph Ryan.
Finally, thank you for your continued interest and support; it truly means the world to me. Stay safe, wear a mask and let’s reconvene in the new year, happy to see 2020 in the rearview mirror and as hopeful and optimistic as ever.
